Do you claim to be a saved Roman Catholic?


QUESTIONS TO ASK A PERSON WHO CLAIMS TO BE A SAVED ROMAN CATHOLIC
By Alex O. Dunlap

Occasionally, some well-meaning Christian thinks he knows a “saved Roman Catholic.” We invite such a person to introduce us to his friend so that we may, in his presence, ask the Roman Catholic these questions. His answers will easily determine that he is not saved in the true, biblical sense. The new “accommodation” approach of the Roman Church in these ecumenical days of apostasy is to use the same expressions as Fundamental Christians. Christian love is not shown by permitting these people to believe they are saved, when they are not. Christian love is shown by making the true Gospel plain and clear so that the “religious but lost” person will realize his unsaved condition and his need of a Saviour. He must receive the true Christ of the Bible, not a counterfeit, as in the Roman, Greek and many other churches. The Apostle Paul said that he was free from the blood of all men because he did not withhold from them all truth. May the same be true of every genuine witness for Jesus Christ! Here are the questions:

1. When were you converted?
2. How were you converted?
3. To what, or to whom, were you converted?
4. What do you believe now that you did not believe before your conversion?
5. What does it mean to be saved?
6. On what scriptural promises do you base your salvation?
7. What does it mean to be born again?
8. Are you sure today that if you die tomorrow, or at any time in the future, you will be in heaven immediately after death?
9. What do you believe about Purgatory?
10. What do you believe about the Mass?
11. Do you still participate in the Mass?
12. Do you believe that any sinner can be saved who dies without trusting in Jesus Christ alone for the salvation of his soul and forgiveness of his sins?
13. Do you believe that Mary and Roman Catholic saints can answer your prayers or help you get to heaven?
14. How do you believe that the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ is applied to your soul?
15. Have you told your priest you have been saved?
16. Do you believe you will still go to heaven if you leave the Roman Catholic Church, receive believer’s baptism and join a fundamentalist Bible believing, non-Catholic church?
17. When and where do you plan to do this?

As questions such as these are discussed in detail, it will become evident that the person is trusting in his works, merits, baptism, confirmation, sacraments, or something BESIDES, OR PLUS, Jesus Christ; and not in Christ and Christ ALONE. He can then be shown the difference between his unbiblical form of salvation and the saving faith of the Bible.

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About Maranatha

Desire to be a testimony for the Lord Jesus Christ and to lead others to Him!
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22 Responses to Do you claim to be a saved Roman Catholic?

  1. irishanglican says:

    Salvation is in three tenses in the Scripture: past, present and future. And this for all Christians. Even fundamentalists!

    Father Robert (Anglican)

  2. Kate says:

    Sir,

    The Bible does not state that at all. This is another man-made tradition of the catholic church. The Bible DOES say that salvation is for today. AFTER salvation comes Christian work brought on by the fruit of the Holy Spirit. This is where catholicism gets it all wrong. They group the work of the Spirit together with the unsaved’s works for salvation. The two do not combine – they are separate. Salvation is for today, Sir:

    (Act 16:30) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

    (2Co 6:2) (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

    (Act 16:31) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    (Luk 13:3) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

  3. Jerry Bouey says:

    Maybe Robert you should try reading and applying the Bible for once:

    Matthew 23:8-10 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

  4. irishanglican says:

    Kate, Without sound biblical theology we will never understand the Holy Scripture! And the scripture does present salvation in the present tense..I said that.

    And I an not a Roman Catholic, but am an Anglican that is both Catholic & Reformed. Do some history homework!

    Jerry, Read 1 Cor.4:15..St. Paul calls himself the “Father” of the Corinthian’s. It is just a moniker for pastor and shepherd.

    Fr. Robert (Irish Anglican)
    D. Phil., Th.D.

  5. Kate says:

    Sir,

    Sound doctrine revolves around the Scriptures, not tradition. Anglican or catholic or whatever “religion” – it doesn’t matter – it must revolve around the Scriptures.

    (1Co 4:15) For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

    Paul was referring to those he led to the Lord – they were his “spiritual” children. This does not give the go ahead to call someone Father. It would contradict what Christ said and we know Scriptures do not contradict Scriptures.

    As for the Anglican church, sir, they are battling with homosexuals in the pulpit. Is this sound biblical theology? Without basing our beliefs on Scriptures, we open ourselves up to the doctrine of demons.

    Your church’s doctrines are based on church traditions, man’s words and YOUR church’s rendition of what history is.

    Our doctrines are based on Scriptures – we can point to verse after verse to uphold what we believe!

  6. irishanglican says:

    Kate, In reality Scripture is itself a doctrinal tradition. It may be said, that Tradition considered in the widest sense of the term, may be said to be a living memory of the Church, containing an historical manifestation of doctrinal truth; a living power, inherent in the Church in so far as it is a living organism, which we call theologically: the Mystical Body of Christ. We must remember too, that the Church existed before the written NT, at least 30 years before St. Paul penned a letter. So the Church had an oral tradition itself. This is part of the Apostolic witness and living reality. The unity and the organic continuity of Tradition are a result of the constant “self-identity” of the Church. The Church has a unique life of its own, a life of faith, worship and love, which are the effect of its being at all times guided by the Holy Spirit. The outer historical envelope of course keeps changing, but the spiritual content remains constant. (Acts 2:42)

    Fr. R.

    PS Again dear, you need to do some history study on the Reformed nature of the Anglican Church and the Thirty-nine Articles. And I think you guys had a few homosexuals…Ted Haggard? This is a sinful and human problem, and crosses all church bounds. Remember St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “And such were some of you…” (1 Cor.6:11).

  7. Kate says:

    Sir,

    The early church had the Oracles (Old Testament) as well as some of the epistles as noted in:

    (Act 15:30) So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:

    (Act 15:31) Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

    Notice that they READ the epistles at Antioch? So they had some form of the New Testament at that time.

    You said:

    It may be said, that Tradition considered in the widest sense of the term, may be said to be a living memory of the Church,

    No, traditions that are man-made are not to be part of the born-again church of Jesus Christ, who is the Head. The doctrinal traditions described in the Word of God are what we follow.

    PS Again dear, you need to do some history study on the Reformed nature of the Anglican Church and the Thirty-nine Articles. And I think you guys had a few homosexuals…Ted Haggard? This is a sinful and human problem, and crosses all church bounds. Remember St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “And such were some of you…” (1 Cor.6:11).

    First, I am not your “dear.” Secondly, I am part of the born-again, blood bought church of Jesus Christ. Having homosexuals in your “church offices” is not in the Word of God. What God condemned Sodom and Gomorrah for will still be condemned by Him today. Ted Haggard is a sinner like everyone else. If he is a true born-again believer, God will chastise him.

    The Word says,

    (1Co 6:9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    (1Co 6:10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners,shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    (1Co 6:11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Whoever continues in their sinful lifestyle after they “proclaim” salvation, merely prayed a prayerette and did not have a sincere conversion.

    (2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

  8. irishanglican says:

    Kate, you are wrong on the nature of the so-called oral tradition. You can even go to your American CRI group here, and they will back me up on this subject. Indeed the Church did not write a line until AD 49 or 50!

    We agree on the need to walk the Christian walk! DISCIPLESHIP In Christ! Lordship too!

    I would be something Reformed in the doctrines of grace. That means both Augustinian and Calvinist to degree.

    I am in my 50’s, and a former Royal Marine officer! So to me, you are always woman, to be given grace and difference. Just that simple! And that is biblical also!

    Father Robert

  9. irishanglican says:

    Kate, (Irish?)…I am Irish born myself. So tell me, what brand of Christian fundamentalist are you? You are flying your flag high here, so I will press you on this!

    Fr. Robert

  10. Lee says:

    Irish Anglican:

    I am going to allow the scripture to speak for itself. The traditions and the words of men will pass away, but the Words of God will never pass away. God’s Word has been divinely preserved for English speaking people in the King James Bible just as God promised His people that they would be. The Word of God was attacked from the very beginning in the Garden of Eden when the Serpent uttered to Eve “Yea hath God said.” The traditions of men that fly in the face of God and His Holy Word are a continuation of Satan’s lie “Ye shall not surely die.” Hear the Words of God and renounce the traditions of men!

    John 17
    1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

    11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

    17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

    20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

    Psalms 119:160
    Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

    Luke 21:33
    Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

    Revelation 22:18
    For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

  11. Vicky Albert says:

    The article written by Alex O. Dunlap was an excellent one. Thank you for posting this on your blog Kate. The response from the gentleman (irishanglican) proves my point in that man made religions, of all kinds, have some truth mixed in with a lot of error. Sadly, from the beginning of time, the enemy of our soul has attacked the Word of God and in these last days, we see more than ever, how the attacks have intensified. “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

    Through the generations the precious gospel of Christ has been watered down, made unclear and mystical, which shouts to the masses that unless you have someone who has been to seminary explaining it to you the person sitting in the pew will not be able to understand what the Holy Scriptures clearly teach concerning salvation, regeneration, etc.

    “Regeneration is God’s work. You cannot work up the new birth, nor can you work for it. You cannot even work to keep it. God gives the new birth as a gift of grace. But He only gives it to those who repent and place full confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that no one can be saved without repentance–a changed mind about God, life, sin, Jesus Christ, etc. And this changed mind will always result in a changed action as the repentant sinner turns to God for salvation, and God gives you new life in Christ”

    Thanks be to God Who promises in His Word that when we seek Him will all our hearts, we will find Him. “But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.” (Deut. 4:29) The questions posed in this article written by Mr. Dunlap are exactly what should be passed on to those dear ones who are lost in the traditions of men, and blind concerning their desperate need for the Saviour. They “indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.” (Matthew 23:27-28 ) “…If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!” (Matthew 6:23b)

    I realize that we could go back and forth on this debate but ultimately it comes down to this. Are you truly searching for truth?? Are you really?? One thing is for sure, God knows each and every one of us and He knows the motive of every heart. When I see Kate or others on this blog answering your comments with THE WORD and read your responses of why you disagree, it certainly speaks loud and clear where you stand. It’s definitely not for the BIBLE and for the ONE who wrote it, but you will go to your death defending your dogma and the traditions of men. THE WORD is the final answer and the final authority… “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)

    Remember:
    “The broad road is an easy road. The gate is wide, providing easy access. There are no restrictions and no one is excluded. The broad road is the moral freeway—travelers are free to do as they please. There is room for any luggage you can bring. Grudges, lusts, pet sins—all are welcome. Travel on the broad road is easy for it runs downhill and is heavily traveled. It is the popular way, the easy way, the wide-open way, the free way. Anybody can travel it and most do.

    The narrow road is the hard road. Its gate is narrow, with conditions and restrictions. You cannot travel the narrow road on your own terms. Jesus said: “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?” (Matthew 16:24-26)

    Why do so few travel the narrow road? Because many are unwilling to put forth the effort to follow Christ. They seek an easy way with room for their ideas, desires, and sinful habits.

    But if the narrow road is difficult, why strive to travel it? The most important thing about any road is where it leads. If a rough one-lane trail is the only road that leads home, one would be foolish to take a four-lane highway because it is easier. Jesus said: “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits…” (Matthew 7:13-16)

    “I exhort you to consult God’s Holy Word! It shines like a beacon of truth into the soul. Only by the light of God’s Word will you see your personal corruption, the disobedience and waywardness of your heart, the imperfection of your own efforts and good deeds. Without God’s Word you blindly grope, around in the darkness of your own understanding. The Bible will give you knowledge of God, His grace, mercy, and justice. It will direct you to Christ and His salvation.!”

    God will not force you to come to Him. You have been given a free will, the gospel has been laid at your feet. Oh dear Friends, take heed and reject Him no longer!

    “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3)

    The love of God is greater far
    Than tongue or pen can ever tell;
    It goes beyond the highest star,
    And reaches to the lowest hell;
    The guilty pair, bowed down with care,
    God gave His Son to win;
    His erring child He reconciled,
    And pardoned from his sin.

    Refrain

    O love of God, how rich and pure!
    How measureless and strong!
    It shall forevermore endure
    The saints’ and angels’ song.

  12. Kate says:

    Irish Anglican:

    I do not base my beliefs on CRI so it does not matter to me whether they agree with me or not – nor does it interest me as to what they print.

    You asked me what flag to I raise high – I raise the flag of Jesus Christ, my Lord, and my Saviour. I am a blood bought child of the King of Kings, and born-again with the new birth (2 Cor. 5:17) because Christ paid my penalty for my sins and He keeps me. I deserved hell but praise God I accepted Jesus Christ as the ONLY way to Heaven.

    You can give me all the mumbo jumbo you want of church history, who said what, and where the council was held, etc. But it is all “man’s words and traditions” built on a foundation of sand. What matters, Sir, is God’s Holy Word. We will be judged by it. Better to obey God, rather than man!

    My faith is built on the Rock, the foundation of Jesus Christ, His Word (John 1:1) and His teachings found in my King James Bible.

    Brother Lee, Excellent verses!!! I never cease to be fed by them!

  13. irishanglican says:

    Kate,

    One of the signs of a so called “cult” is that they have no authority (so they say) than the Bible. But when we look at the vast amount of so called fundamentalist bible cults, the list is almost endless. Also cults treat other Christians, that are historically different, as if they are not or cannot be Christians (if they are not just like them). This is plain with the blog of your friend Vicky. As it appears you are all of one mind here, and perhaps in the same church?

    I am fully under the authority of the Holy Scripture myself also! You forget I am in Great Britain, and the King James Bible came from here. I read the KJV too, but I also recognize the limits of the TR or Recieved Text (as to the Greek Text). So I also read the lastest Greek Text of the UBS, and Nestle-Aland. Plus other English translations. Perhaps the best right now, is the rather new: ESV – English Standard Version, which is American I might add.

    Finally, you and yours are not the only Christians. Just because someone uses their brains a bit does not scare God at all. In fact He asks us to think and reason!

    “Be diligent to present yourself (mind & body) approved to God, a workman unashamed, keeping the message on a straight course (clear lines and right path) the message of truth.” (2 Tim. 2:15, lit. Gk)

    Fr. Robert

  14. irishanglican says:

    Kate, I did want to pass this along, the text of 1 John 5:7 is based on a very late Greek manuscript. And thus thought by almost all Greek scholars and Greek students to be an interpolation at best.

    I am a solid Trinitarian for sure, but the great doctrine is not based on one biblical text, but permeates the whole of Scripture, especially the NT!

    Fr. R.

  15. Jerry Bouey says:

    St. Paul calls himself the “Father” of the Corinthian’s. It is just a moniker for pastor and shepherd.

    Robert, nice try – but you won’t find THAT in the Bible! Do you usually set the Bible against itself in your so-called studying of it? Paul stated there he was their father spiritually – he was the one who led them to the Lord; however, he NOWHERE tells anyone to call him such nor does he take upon that title – as that would directly contradict and disobey Jesus’ prior commands on the issue.

  16. Jerry Bouey says:

    Sis. Vicky, I appreciated what you posted about the broad and narrow road. Is that a quote from somewhere, or your own thoughts?

  17. 282Mikado says:

    In answer to irishanglican I would first like to say that WHERE a translation is from is meaningless. It is more who it is translated by and from what is it translated. It seems the references you seem to think the best find there roots steeped in the heresies of Westcott and Hort by which Nestle-Aland were strongly influenced. This would not seem a good foundation from which to build a strong relationship with God as Westcott and Hort were far from what anyone could call Biblical or Christian purists. It can be strongly assumed that they were not Christian at all.

    What we believe about the Holy Scriptures will obviously have a profound impact on how and what we believe. It seems most in this blog believe that the Authorized KJV is the true inspired word of God for the English language. As such we believe everything in it is true and is a solid foundation from which we can build our faith. We believe that God is not limited in anything and is quite capable of preserving His word just as He promised:

    Psalms 12:6 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.”
    Psalms 12:7 “Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”

    You, on the other hand, have no such foundation. You have various versions to which you turn, each of which you feel are equally as good, yet each are contradictory. This is a foundation built on shifting sand. Which part of which text is true? How do you know? Many I know in this position will say the Holy Spirit guides them to what is true between the versions they read, yet many of the people that say this disagree with each other as to what the Holy Spirit has “led them” to believe. How can this be? Is the Holy Spirit contradictory? The answer to that last question is no, the various versions are contradictory and the Holy Spirit is not in it. As Jerry said earlier, Satan is in it just as he has been in the corruption of God’s word since the Garden of Eden.

    You referenced the following verse:

    2 Timothy 2:15 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

    I would like to ask how it is possible for you to do this? You do not believe that you have God’s infallible “word of truth”. It is this fundamental position that, I believe, has led to all the traditions and religions that continue to lead people away from Christ ever since the days of Origen. It is also this fundamental belief that is going to keep people like us divided to some degree. We believe God has maintained His perfectly inspired word in the KJV, you believe God was not capable of doing so. Our beliefs are built on a rock, your are on shifting sand.

  18. Lee says:

    Way of Life Encyclopedia
    CULT
    The term “cult” is from the Latin word cultus, which refers to worship and religious devotion. It is most commonly used today of a religious sect, particularly those sects which seriously deviate from traditional Bible Christianity. Since the term “cult” is not a Bible one, there is no absolute definition of it. Websters College Dictionary gives three basic definitions of a cult: “a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies; a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc.; a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist.” According to the Dictionary of Cults, Sects, Religions and the Occult, a cult is “a relatively small, often transitory religious group that commonly follows a radical leader. In recent times, orthodox Christians have used the term to describe those religious groups that deny the Trinity and specifically the deity of Jesus Christ. Their teachings are contrary to historic Christian orthodoxy.” Walter Martin, in The Kingdom of the Cults, defined a cult as “any religious group which differs significantly in some one or more respects as to belief or practice, from those religious groups which are regarded as the normative expressions of religion in our total culture.”

    Because of this variation and uncertainty in the definition of the term “cult,” it should be employed cautiously and should be plainly defined by the user. This editor believes Bible terms describing error are much more helpful. These are terms such as “false prophets” (Mt 7:15; 24:24); “heresies” (2Pe 2:1); “heretic” (Tit 3:10); “false teacher” (2Pe 2:1); “false apostles, deceitful workers” (2Co 11:13); “doctrines of devils” (1Ti 4:1); “tradition of men” (Col 2:8); “evil workers” (Php 3:2); “another gospel” (2Co 11:4; Ga 1:6), “antichrists” (1Jo 3:18); “evil men and seducers” (2Ti 3:13); “deceivers” (2Ti 3:13); “every wind of doctrine” (Eph 4:14); “them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned” (Ro 16:17).

    One of the chief errors relating to the use of the term “cult” today is in limiting biblical separation to the basis of only a few “cardinal” doctrines. A book published in 1976 entitled Whom Then Can We Believe? (Maurice Burrell and J. Stafford Wright, Moody Press) dealt with a number of groups commonly labeled as cults: Christian Science, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Theosophy, Armstrongism, Spiritualism, and Christadelphianism. We believe the authors erred in limiting their doctrinal tests to “that which all the churches, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant, including the denominational churches, have always regarded as the truth about the being of God as drawn from Scripture.” Denominations are not the standard for truth; the Bible is! And Scriptural authority is not limited to part of the Bible or to certain teachings of the Bible, but extends to the whole Bible. God nowhere instructs us to base our judgments upon or to establish doctrinal unity by finding common ground between the major denominations.

    We do not dispute the fact that some teachings of the Bible are more important than others, particularly in regard to salvation. The doctrine of the Gospel is more important than the doctrine of fasting, for example. Yet the Bible enjoins Gods people to exalt all Bible doctrine. We are to preach all Bible doctrine–the whole counsel of God (Ac 20:27; 2Ti 4:1-6). We are to earnestly contend for all Bible doctrine–the faith which was delivered to us (Jude 1:3). We are to forbid others to teach ANY doctrine which is contrary to Bible doctrine (1Ti 1:3). We are to observe Bible doctrine in every detail–without spot (1Ti 6:14), as a solemn trust which has been committed to us (1Ti 6:20). The doctrine of baptism is important. The doctrine of the Holy Spirit is important. The doctrine of sanctification is important. The doctrine of the church is important. Eternity security is important. Pastoral standards are important. The woman’s role in Christian service is important. Doctrine related to Prophecy is important. Doctrine related to separation is important. Doctrine related to evangelism and world missions is important.

    The passages of Scripture previously cited (Ac 20:27; Jude 1:3; 1Ti 1:3; 6:14,20; 2Ti 4:1-6) do not allow me to pick a few Bible doctrines–such as the virgin birth, deity, and resurrection of Christ and salvation by grace alone–and exalt these as the sole basis for fellowship. We must stand on the whole counsel of God, and that tends to limit fellowship significantly!

    Let me give a practical example of what I am talking about. Many refuse to label the Roman Catholic Church as a cult, because the Roman Catholic Church believes in the deity of Jesus Christ and certain other “cardinal” Bible doctrines. In our estimation, this is a useless debate. Whether or not the Roman Catholic Church is defined as a cult is not very important. The fact is that the RCC teaches a false gospel which mixes grace and sacraments, faith and works together; it teaches “another gospel,” and it is therefore cursed of God as were the Galatian heretics of old (Ga 1:1-24).

    Another example. I do not believe that the Assemblies of God are a cult or that those who are involved with the AG are necessarily unsaved. But I do believe the AG teaches many false doctrines which are contrary to the Word of God and I therefore cannot fellowship together with them. For me to contend earnestly for the whole counsel of God creates a barrier between me and the AG. This is only one example of countless which could be given.

    Thus the term “cult” is not necessarily a helpful one. In fact, it can be dangerous.

  19. irishanglican says:

    Jerry Bouey,

    I have already proven the texual argument! The very text itself and its own statement, plus just a little exegesis. There is no “trying” with exegesis. Exegesis – that means “sound” interpretation. But you must have an open mind, and an honest heart. One more thing, you must be willing to let the Biblical Text lead you and have the authority it speaks, even over your own ideas. Also exegesis refers to the process of interpreting a text.

    Sorry but I don’t see that here with you people.

    282Mikado,

    The old KJV only, is very stale! The KJV is not a bad translation, but certainly the Greek Text is often flawed (See the Book of Revelation, Gk.). The NKJV is much better as a modern up do. But again the same Greek text is used.

    Your attack on both the Nestle-Aland and the W-H, Westcott and Hort, is simply ad hom. When one cannot attack the issue, they attack the people or persons. And to imply that Wescott and Hort were not Christians, again you must be reading Chick tracts. Both Wescott and Hort were solid Anglican evangelicals, we could amass many things for this sound proof! If people here REALLY want to check? Look at both their lives, and their ministry. It speaks for itself: Evangelical Anglicans!

    Lee, I brought up CRI, and Kate said, no need!

    Fr. Robert

  20. Kate says:

    Irish Anglican,

    The Bible has two verses that deal with this/your type of heresy:

    (Rom 13:12) The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

    (Eph 5:11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

    I will not be posting your comments any longer. I did this one so that Jerry and 282 will be able to respond, if they choose to.

  21. 282Mikado says:

    irishanglican, please look to the following website to read the very quotes of Westcott and Hort. http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hort.htm
    If these are quotes from gentlemen that are “solid Anglican evangelicals” then that is just one more reason for me to not want to join with them.

    As to KJV english being stale, I would have to strongly disagree. In fact it is much more concise and correct than today’s English and makes understanding God’s word much easier.

  22. Jerry Bouey says:

    You are right, Robert – you don’t see us being openminded to believing heresy!

    Westcott and Hort evangelical Christians!?? You’re dreaming. This is some info on them:

    Both Westcott and Hort were heretics who denied many fundamentals of Scripture (and especially about Jesus Christ), they were pro-Catholics (Westcott even renamed his wife Mary in honor of this church), they were also both involved in the occult, satanic worship, and even believed in contacting the dead – in fact they started several clubs to do this very thing – The Hermes Club and The Ghostly Guild respectively. These two have also chosen several Unitarians for the committee of the English Revised Version of 1881. Westcott believed in Communism, and Hort believed in evolution. They were both friends of Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, and Helena Blavatsky, the mother of the modern New Age/Satanic movement ! (Her doctrines have influenced them in some of their major departures and changes from the Traditional Texts.) If an unsaved man cannot understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14), why do the majority of modern scholars somehow assume that the work of these apostate, unbelieving heretics would be superior to the Authorized King James?

    Doesn’t sound too Christian to me – and in comparison with God’s Word!!

    P.S. If these two were typical “evangelical Anglicans”, that is a good reason to reject Anglicanism as well! Of course, Anglicanism is just rehashed, remodeled Catholicism anyway.

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